Thursday, October 11, 2007

Vegan blog chides Warwak

Well, it seems that fired vegan evangelist teacher Dave Warwak is, in fact, so out of line that even fellow vegans are now jumping from his cause like rats from a sinking ship. A post yesterday on the Super Vegan blog blasts Warwak for, just as I said, asking students to hide his proselytizing from their parents, accusing the school of reckless endangerment for serving milk, and childishly refusing to return to work unless all animal products were eliminated from the school cafeteria. The title of the post rightfully referred to Warwak as "obnoxious". Indeed. Not to mention reckless, irresponsible, a faux victim, and not particularly truthful in light of the fact he's changed his story several times. I can't help but wonder if the vegan ideologue who left comments on my blog, still is actually ignorant enough to think that Warwak is victim of persecution by a quasi-fascist society that simply hates vegans.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

That's the price of a moral life. What do you expect people to do when there is real torture going on all around us in slaughter houses that cameras aren't allowed in (unless their undercover like in this video http://meat.org).

But yes, it's so easy to laugh off the mad man who doesn't conform to societies official doublethink doctrine that says it's wrong to hurt an animal but it's OK to harm 50 billion animals a year to please our palate.

Grizzly Bear said...

"That's the price of a moral life."

Would you care to stop dodging and actually address the real issue here? Do you consider indoctrinating other people's children into your own personal ideology to be part of a "moral life"? Does telling children to hide said indoctrination from their parents fit into your lofty ethical principles? As I have said multiple times here, Mr. Warwak's use of children as pawns in his little ideological game is a sick and vile form of exploitation. Will you go on record as condemning it, or is any tactic that advances the cause of AR or veganism acceptable to you?

Moses said...

Most children go through a ritual three times a day, every day, which almost without failure succeeds in conditioning their minds to beleive that hiring a company to kill an animal (the details of the torturous lives these animals live and the manner of their death are always hidden) is normal. So normal that questions of morality regarding their exploitation rarely if ever bubble up into the consciousness. So in that light, I don't condone Warwak's tactics but it doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is the real suffering of sentient creatures. My question to you was, given the conditions of intensive factory farming what do you expect people to do. Do you think all human beings are soulless automata who will never react to the atrocious abuses being committed by the animal exploitation industry.

Admittedly, I haven't read a lot of your writing on this subject so maybe I'm missing something. Here is your chance to prove my analysis wrong. Why shouldn't we expect civil disobedience regarding this issue. Is there no moral dimension to animal exploitation?

Grizzly Bear said...

"Why shouldn't we expect civil disobedience regarding this issue."

Sorry, but that just doesn't wash with me. Civil disobedience is fine, so long as it doesn't violate another person's rights. Rosa Parks refusing to sit in the back of the bus, for example, was acceptable civil disobedience because by doing so, she didn't violate another person. That doesn't fit with Warwak's situation. He knowingly violated parents' rights to control the values and morals that are taught to their children, and stole that right for himself. He compounded his error when he asked his students to hide his proselytizing from their parents. Using other people's children as pawns in one's own self-serving ideological game is NOT civil disobedience, it's child exploitation and it's unacceptable. It crosses the line and goes well over. Why is it you AR types complain incessantly about "animal exploitation" but you don't seem to have any problem with exploiting children as a means to an ideological end?

There are plenty of methods for ARAs to get their message out that are perfectly acceptable. After all, we live in a democratic society. Hold a peaceful protest in front of city hall, the capitol, etc.. Write letters to the editor. Start a blog. Write your elected officials. Run pro-AR candidates for public office or do so yourself. The fact of the matter is, however, that the vast majority of society rejects the AR ideology. That is why they resort to more desperate, over-the-line tactics, such as those being used by Warwak, and of course ultimately, those used by ALF and their ilk.

"Is there no moral dimension to animal exploitation?"


There certainly is, and indeed, that is the crux of the debate is it not? On one extreme you have a small minority of people that think we should be able to do whatever we want to animals, unfettered. In the middle you have most of society, which believes that it is acceptable for humans to use animals, but that we need to consider the welfare of animals in the process. On the other extreme, we have the ARAs/"abolitionists", another small minority that think that animals are entitled to human-like rights and we should not be allowed to use them for any purpose. But, in reality, what does any of that have to do with Warwak's actions? Just because he takes a position that he believes to be morally just, that doesn't give him license to do whatever he chooses does it?

Anonymous said...

Grizzly Bear wrote, "Civil disobedience is fine, so long as it doesn't violate another person's rights"
Warwak says, "What about the rights of the child to a healthy life and mind. To rob a person of their health and to deny a body free of heart disease and a mind free of falsehoods is a crime against our youth and the future of humanity

Grizzly Bear said...

Grizzly Bear wrote, "Civil disobedience is fine, so long as it doesn't violate another person's rights"
Warwak says, "What about the rights of the child to a healthy life and mind. To rob a person of their health and to deny a body free of heart disease and a mind free of falsehoods is a crime against our youth and the future of humanity


And GrizzlyBear says Warwak is clueless. It is the responsibility, and the right, of the parents, not an unhinged teacher with an agenda he is rabidly obsessed with, to ensure the health and well-being of their children. What part of that is so hard to understand? Secondly, a balanced diet containing meat and dairy is healthy for children and doesn't "rob them of their health". Third, if you are so concerned about the mental health of children, how do you think such reckless, one-sided indoctrination of children who cannot give informed consent, affects their mental health?

Bernoldus Niemand said...

Killing animals for food has been a part of human society since time immemorial. There is a plethora of archaeological evidence to support this.

If meat is murder, as animal rightists tend to think, then humanity is guilty of a massive crime. Indeed a crime so monstrous that even the Nazi Holocaust is rendered insignificant. The Christian notion of original sin is nothing compared to this indictment.

What I find somewhat curious is that even the most right wing figures can cast themselves as animal rightists. A case in point is Mark Scully who has published a book about the plight of animals. Scully is a leading figure in the American evangelical movement and a promoter of the war against Iraq, a war which has claimed the lives of more than 1 million human beings.

Anonymous said...

Bernoldus Niemand said, "If meat is murder, as animal rightists tend to think, then humanity is guilty of a massive crime. Indeed a crime so monstrous that even the Nazi Holocaust is rendered insignificant. The Christian notion of original sin is nothing compared to this indictment"
Warwak says, now you are beginning to see the reality of it all. Yes, this is a monstrous Holocaust and is responsible for MOST of our problems. This is not just about diet. Don't believe everything you see. The world is an illusion. Wake up. There are many things all around us made from animals that we never notice. We're so disconnected; we don't even notice this right in front of our face three times a day. When we open our circle of compassion to all, we grow as a people and our treatment of each other and others improves. It really is about peace, love, and compassion for all